Peter is a friend I’ve made through the blog. He has a blog at merehumanity.wordpress.com
Peter wrote today and asked why I had not answered one his recent comments on the blog. I believe the comment posted belowis the one he meant. It was a comment on my post, “Revisiting Gentiles in MJ.” His subject matter is syncretism (adding non-Christian elements to the faith) in the Roman Catholic church and some evidence for a seventh-day Sabbath view in some of the Church fathers. Here is the last two-thirds of Peter’s comment:
there were various authors from the early “church” who spoke of keeping Sabbath on the 7th not 1st day. there is much history that suggests the early followers of Yeshua kept the Sabbath. then by the 5th and 6th century, there are two separate writers who discuss the views of the “church” (mind you the Body is almost purely gentile by then). they both say that Sabbath is the 7th day, and has always been, and most importantly that the ENTIRE church keeps the 7th day, EXCEPT for the church in Rome and Alexandria. sure rome and alexandria were big churches, meaning a lot of people, but the majority of the Body wasnt in those two regions (at that time). the majority was in asia minor. so the “majority” of the church (if these historians are to be believedd) kept Sabbath on the 7th day.
however, the bishop of Rome mandated that people not keep Sabbath on saturday and instead keep it on sunday. this was in the 5th century.
now, i think the pt is that gentile followers of Yeshua with little jewish influence left, still kept Sabbath. however, over time, Rome become the primary influence in the Body, and over time, the bishop of Rome became stronger. and over time, the “pope” became rich and powerful and ungodly. and over time, the popes became murderous and perverted. and over time, the RC church gained power over almost everything. so is it really surprising that there are things that have changed from being “jewish” (Sabbath) to being “gentile” (Sunday rest day)????
now, my pt isnt to say that the Body shouldnt be gentile and jewish, but that the Body of followers of Yeshua in the beginning, were much more “jewish” culturally in their practices than “gentile”. now, we see the opposite, except for in MJ.
so maybe there is another possibility. maybe its ok to have MJ. maybe its ok to have a “separate” body for “gentiles”, but arent we all supposed to be following Yeshua. arent we all (originally) supposed to be culturally “jewish”? at least in regard to many practices. i know there are areas of debate as to whether gentiles must be fully Torah observant or not. but certainly the “gentile” churches have forgotten what it means to follow Yeshua.
maybe MJ doesnt care about that. maybe Jewish believers dont want to help their brothers out. but what if yall helped guide us to a better understanding of what it means to follow Yeshua? why cant that happen? why must there be apartheid? why must there be an MJ movement and a “baptist” movement and a “pentecostal” movement and a RC movement and a “reformed” movement, etc. isnt the pt that we are all one in Yeshua?
and as such, i think there is a need for “jewishness” at least culturally. but that really wont happen among the “gentile” churches unless MJ helps. Peter
Here are some questions I have for Peter:
1. What church father or early church leader advocacted a seventh-day Sabbath? I need a reference to believe this is true. If it is, I am honestly unaware of it.
2. Which bishop of Rome declared Sunday the new Sabbath? I need a reference. You may be right but I would like to see documentation.
3. Are you saying that being Jewish doesn’t really matter and that Jews and Gentiles in Messiah have no distinction of role?
Thanks and I look forward to your answers.