We’re in a series about non-Jews and Torah. At least one reader asks why I am not discussing Jews in MJ at the moment. Well, that is an important topic. As it happens, non-Jews in MJ is also an important topic. As I am not HaShem, I can only discuss a limited number of things at once. Ah, but someday, in the World to Come, maybe our Torah discussions will be more complex. Perhaps we will be able to simultaneously discuss dozens of topics.
Anyway, for the moment, since non-Jews in MJ is an issue affecting our movement with some urgency, I thought it might be good to spend a few weeks on the subject.
We are working through a list of ten scriptural considerations that I listed under “Torah, Israel, and the Nations: Part 1.”
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It is commonly held in the Torah-revival movement that the Sabbath is a “creation ordinance” and that all of God’s people, Jew or non-Jew, should be keeping it.
There are so many problems with this assertion and too many are willing to overlook the problems and eagerly plow ahead.
In the first place, what does it mean to observe the Sabbath. Many think it has something to do with attending worship. Not true. Israel did not have a weekly worship service. (Leviticus 23:3 does not contradict what I am saying. The translations that render it “holy convocation” or something similar are missing it. The Sabbath is a sacred proclamation, referring to the priests declaring the time of the Sabbath’s beginning and ending. I suggest reading Jewish commentaries or the work of Jacob Milgrom in the Anchor Series.)
So what does it mean to observe the Sabbath? It means rest. Literally, the word Sabbath (Shabbat) is the Hebrew for rest.
But how will you observe the Sabbath in a non-Jewish way, those who say the Sabbath is a creation ordinance. What time does Sabbath begin? When does it end? How do you sanctify it?
Those answers come from Jewish tradition (rabbinic tradition). And when you consult the rabbis, what do you find? Sabbath is not for non-Jews.
Now, before you engage in a tirade against those “stuffy rabbis,” consider what God has to say about it:
You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, ‘Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the Lord, sanctify you. Exodus 31:13.
I direct your attention to several phrases in this verse:
1. Between me and you.
2. throughout your generations.
3. I, the Lord, sanctify you.
Many could easily dismiss these phrases and engage in sloppy hermeneutics. We are so used to people not believing the God actually means Israel when he says Israel, it is easy for those with a Christian background to make the same mistake as thousands of Christian interpreters have in the past. What mistake do I refer to? The mistake of assuming that everything in the Bible is addressed to you. The mistake of failing to realize God does not always speak to everyone.
The Sabbath is between God and Israel. It is intimate. It is like something between a man and wife.
The Sabbath is for all Israel’s generations. Israel is still here. The Sabbath is still vital and still for Israel.
Yet the clincher would have to be the last phrase. The Sabbath is to sanctify Israel, to set Israel apart. From whom? The nations.
Besides all this, it turns out the Sabbath is not a creation ordinance at all. The text usually cited to prove this is:
And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done. Genesis 2:2
Many have observed that “rested” is from the same root as Sabbath. Thus, it is argued, the Sabbath comes from creation. No it doesn’t. The noun Sabbath is from a verb that means to rest. God rested on the seventh day, but he did not establish the Sabbath or command it to Adam or Noah.
Others will cite Exodus 20:11:
For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day.
God used this example from creation to give a foundation for the Sabbath command. How should we take this fact? Was God saying in Exodus that the Sabbath was a creation ordinance, binding upon the whole world, and thus Israel should keep it?
That is understanding God’s reasoning backwards. God wasn’t saying Israel should rest because God established the Sabbath at creation. He was saying he rested on the seventh day to anticipate and reveal to Israel how vital the Sabbath is to him. Think about it. I mean really. God had Israel in mind from the beginning.
Sometimes people will argue that Israel, in Exodus 16, where the manna instructions are given and Sabbath is first mentioned, already seemed to know what it meant. Thus, people will sometimes say, Israel must have been keeping the Sabbath all along. Again, not true. They knew what God meant when he said the seventh day was to be a Sabbath because the word Sabbath means rest. Let’s do an experiment. If I said to you, “The seventh day is to be a rest for you,” do you think you would understand what I meant? I thought so.
Later, we will consider Romans 14 and its purpose in the flow of Romans. We will find that Paul was referring directly to the fact that Sabbath is not God’s requirement for non-Jews when he said, “One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord.”
Messianic Jewish Musings 
Derek didn’t God bless and sanctify the 7th day?
Genesis 2:3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
The truth is we don’t really know if before Israel Sabbath was kept or not.
What’s interesting though there seems to be ‘oral’ communication with God and man. As an example how did Cain and Abel know to sacrifice?
All we know is that God blessed the 7th day and sanctified.
Marc
Marc:
Let’s follow the logic:
1. The Bible does not say that the Sabbath was a command before Sinai.
2. The Sabbath could possibly have been a command before Sinai.
3. Therefore the Sabbath must have been a command before Sinai?
Now, follow my logic:
1. The Sabbath is not mentioned before the Exodus.
2. God calls the Sabbath a sign between himself and Israel.
3. The Sabbath is something God made for Israel to follow.
Derek
Derek, several questions:
1) Doesn’t the declarative Sabbath command (Exodus 16) actually PRECEDE Sinai (Exodus 20)?
2) If God didn’t give the Torah commandments (orally) before Sinai, why did He expect Cain and Abel to know how to properly sacrifice? Wouldn’t that be capricious of God to withhold acceptance of Cain’s sacrifice if He hadn’t given the commandments already?
3) What about Numbers 15:15, which specifies we are all to be under the same Law?
4) In Romans 11, in your view, what is the olive tree Believers are (re)grafted into?
Also Isaiah 56 where it says all will be keeping the Sabbath.
If you study the Book of Acts what day did the believers meet? It wasn’t even a question whether or not what day of the week was the Shabbat.
It only takes a little study of early church history to discover that the gentiles moved away from the ‘Jewishness’ of the faith. As the faith was Jewish.
Marc
Marc:
You asked on what day the believers met in Acts. This is a moot question. The early part of Acts reflects the Jerusalem congregation’s pattern. The Jerusalem congregation was part of the Jewish wing of the movement. Acts 20 most likely is a Saturday night meeting, I agree. But this proves nothing.
As I have said before, the Sabbath never was a day of required worship in the Torah. The non-Jewish wing of the movement started meeting on Sunday quite early, in the first century. This is evident in the Didache. There is nothing wrong with Sunday worship.
Marc, instead of repeating revisionist historical mantras, you really should read serious books and learn some actual history. There is a tendency for sectarian believers like yourself to ignore evidence and simply repeat simplistic “proofs.” Sorry to be so hard on you, but you stuck your neck out on the blog and you speak as if you are an expert.
Derek
Hello, all…
My name is Lamar. *waves*
First off, might I say that I have so enjoyed the discussion and debate going on here for a little over 3 weeks or so now. I have learned much and gained many valuable insights. I have felt like Corrie Ten Boom watching her father and the rabbi “fuss” over the interpretation of Scripture. My soul (and mind) has so needed this kind of discussion!
Myself? I am no scholar… nor do I consider myself particularly wise… or even very learned. I do thirst, though… and am very hungry.
Menachem, I would’ve loved to have chosen a moniker such as your’s… but ‘A Simple Gentile’ just didn’t seem to fit. Maybe ‘A Complicated Gentile’ would be better… LOL! Well, at least for now…
At any rate, what I seek is the Truth… and the Way. Wherever the L-RD directs I feel I must follow… even if that means “unlearning” all that I have learned.
Shalom,
Lamar
p.s. — Questions and such to follow…
Maybe this is neither the time nor place, but I feel I must ask… since the topic does seem to relate.
What is a Gentile to do? How is a Gentile Believer to live? What standard do we (as Gentile Believers) follow? How does one become more “Christ-like” while remaining a Gentile? Or because I am a Gentile does it really even matter?
These are the kinds of questions that I wrestle with… have wrestled with… for years and years.
I would think that the Council’s ruling in Acts 15 be considered “milk”… a starting point, more or less. But should a serious Gentile student of G-d’s Word forever in his walk only do those things? Especially if his mind, heart, and soul is turned towards trying to do what is right? Paul himself seems to imply later that we are responsible for what we have learned. In the Light of Messiah, how can I not be? What should I do?
What holidays should I keep? Christmas? Easter? All Saint’s Day? Ash Wednesday? Should I reason that since the “Church” keeps these days that they are OK for me to keep as well? Even though each of these (and more) smack of paganism?
In this “Christian” world of today, how exactly does a Gentile Believer come out and be seperate?
Over the course of 5 or 6 years now, the L-RD seems to be leading me somewhere… somewhere far removed from this notion of modern (or maybe altogether) “Christianity”… and that scares me. But I hunger for Him… His Word… His Truth… His Ways… for the “meat”. Maybe it’s just me. But it seems the more I learn of Him, the more I see my absolute need of Him… and the closer I want to follow.
Sorry for all the questions… maybe the answer is right in front of me.
And please forgive me if this “out of line” for this thread…
Shalom…
Seeking His Path,
Lamar
Lamar:
I don’t know enough about your situation to give you a firm answer about what you should do. If you love the Jewish people and love being in the Jewish community, then I think you should pursue it.
If you have fallen in love with Biblical customs, and not necessarily the Jewish people, then I think you need to understand them properly. If they are signs between Israel and God, then I think you should appreciate them without taking them improperly on yourself. Many Christians love biblical and Jewish customs without pretending to be Jews themselves.
If you do not have a strong calling to worship alongside Israel or join with Israel, then find a great church. In my opinion a great church will be small, community-oriented, serious about Bible study, serious about worship and prayer, and pro-Israel.
At Christmas you can enjoy sermons and songs about Messiah’s birth without caving in to pagan practices. At Resurrection time, you can celebrate the resurrection without fertility symbols. At All Saint’s day you can read church history and remember great leaders God has raised up. On Ash Wednesday you can begin reading the gospels and spiritually preparing for Resurrection.
There is nothing inherently wrong with non-Jews forming times and seasons as traditions. Make the best of them. If I were to return to Christianity, I think I would know far better now how to find depth, meaning, and passion there.
Derek
“As I have said before, the Sabbath never was a day of required worship in the Torah. The non-Jewish wing of the movement started meeting on Sunday quite early, in the first century. This is evident in the Didache. There is nothing wrong with Sunday worship.
Marc, instead of repeating revisionist historical mantras, you really should read serious books and learn some actual history. There is a tendency for sectarian believers like yourself to ignore evidence and simply repeat simplistic “proofs.” Sorry to be so hard on you, but you stuck your neck out on the blog and you speak as if you are an expert.”
No Derek not an expert but pratical and realistic.
Yes there are writings that after the ‘1st generation of believers’ that there was Sunday meeting.
Have you or have you not read writings about the early church fathers with an intent to take the ‘Jewishness’ out of the faith. As you recommended to me there are also some good books on this subject. About the persecutions of those that kept the Sabbath both Jew and Gentile. Paul warned about the mystery of lawlessness. In fact it was slowly happening in his day.
Yes I have stuck my neck out but never proclaimed myself an expert. Just a bible student who looks at early church history with praticality.
Marc
Marc:
Listen, man, I can’t help you if you insist on calling sectarian tripe scholarship.
You said, “There are also some good books on this subject. About the persecutions of those that kept the Sabbath both Jew and Gentile. Paul warned about the mystery of lawlessness. In fact it was slowly happening in his day.”
Yeah, I’ve seen Seventh Day Adventist writings of the type you describe. That’s not serious history, Marc. If the books you refer to are not SDA, then please do give us some references.
Marc, history requires objectivity. These kinds of books are revisionist histories. They don’t just have an agenda, they are driven by an agenda.
I didn’t read church history hoping to de-Judaize it. Just the opposite. I would have soaked it up if I found out that early Christians all were Messianic Jews.
Sunday worship is not lawlessness. It is a fine tradition for those who choose to follow it.
Now, unless you have some non-sectarian, serious references, please do not write about your evidences on my blog. Put up or shut up.
Derek
“Now, unless you have some non-sectarian, serious references, please do not write about your evidences on my blog. Put up or shut up.”
Derek with all due respect the only evidence one needs is the Apostolic scriptures. The Book of Acts you can use as historical context.
I agree that historical writings, the Didache and the like might have objectivity. Only scripture can we rely on with no objectivity.
Is it or is it not a fact according to scripture that the early believers assembled themselves in synagogues on the Sabbath? That there wasn’t synagogues for Jews and right next store was a church for gentiles?
Derek you see I consider both sides of debate before I make inform decisions. I have admitted that I’m wishy washy in this topic. But I try to be realistic and pratical.
So let’s not even look at other sources and writings because they outside sources and writings like you said can be objective and have an agenda.
Let’s look at scripture.
And no I am not advocating one law for Jew and gentile.
What I am advocating is that the New Covenant is very clear. The New Covenant is speaking about Israel and Judah. Not a replacement for Israel and Judah. It’s very specific because it says , “that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man and the seed of beast”. It’s speaking about DNA. You got the DNA? This is literally Israel. Who’s the New Covenant for? Israel and Judah period no additions. How do gentiles have a hope if it’s without Israel and Judah? As Eph 2 tells gentiles, you had no hope. There was no way you could be part of Israel, you don’t t have the ‘DNA’. Unless it’s by being united with the One who has the ‘DNA’. A Jewish Messiah why He remains Jewish is your only hope. Otherwise you have no hope. You can never be apart of this.
The New Covenant is one must be apart of Israel or you can’t be part of the New Covenant period.
This doesn’t mean that gentiles are suppose to become Jews. In fact it’s evident in the Apostolic scriptures.
Marc
It’s my first time here and I will say you are all very intelligent and I appreciate that. You all have something; a great thing in common; that is love of our Messiah. I’m not an avid book lover but when I truly find a book written by a reputable author whom I know has true knowledge of scripture, I soak it in. I love the Bible. That is my first choice of books. But another book I highly recommend; of course just a suggestion, is the new book John Hagee wrote “In Defense of Israel”. He pin points this exact topic that you guys are discussing regarding the New Covenant and who it was really for, etc. It is so awesome and revealed a lot to me that I was lacking. I truly love the Jewish people and the nation of Israel; I am Gentile. I also think that Yeshua was sent by God as His only Son as a sacrifice. Any of us who think “well, thanks God, but that just isn’t enough.” I mean how does that make God feel?? I cannot even begin to imagine. Christ was a gift. But one comment I want to mention is: I think that Yeshua (Jesus) was certainly an observant Jew; but I believe that He was probably more interested in how we recognized the work of the Father; the gift of His Father rather than focusing on the culture. No doubt about it. Yeshua (Jesus) was/is Jewish 100%.
For example, my husband left a couple of days ago for Israel (by himself) :-( Since the Sabbath there falls on Friday at sundown, when does it end?? They stop working, answering phones, etc. at around 5:00 or so (give or take an hour) I tried calling his hotel several times and could not get him. They would not answer the phone. They would not let him have a Shabbat key since he is not “Jewish.” They would not let him use the phone, elevator, etc. and he was told that if he drove, there was a possibility that his car would be stoned. Okay, so, here I am worried to death about him and rightfully so. He was taken (invited) to the home of a man whom he thought was a Jewish man that had invited him over for Sabbath dinner which was very kind. My husband agreed to go. When he got there, the man started talking to him about allah. My husband realized he was in a muslim home (which is okay) but I’m just saying that immediately they tried “converting” him to a muslim. This scared him a bit. He calmly explained to them the story of Abraham (Isaac and Ishmael), he explained to them that no where in the holy scriptures is allah even mentioned but only that it mentions “thou shalt have no other Gods before me.” etc., and so on. My husband is extremely intelligent with scripture (original Hebrew scripture) so the argument became very heated and he asked the driver to take him as far as he could (before getting stones thrown). Naturally when he arrived at his hotel he was shaken a bit.
He asked the front desk if I had called in. She said “no.” we don’t answer the phones. He said, “is there any way you would turn them on just so my wife can call and know I’m okay?” She said “no. Today is a day of peace.” My husband looked around and noticed in the hallway men carrying guns. He said to her “then why all of the guns?” If God intended for there to be peace and rest, then why the guns? She would not answer. My point of all this is, do you think Yeshua (Jesus) would have said if he were behind the desk “No, you cannot speak with your wife.” Or would He have asked “give me the number and I’ll dial it for you?”
So what part of us is he after??? We happen to observe the sabbath in our special way. We agree not to go anywhere on Saturday night or Sunday (except church). We of course still use our electricity and modern day essentials but what’s most important is we acknowledge God for His holiness and not just culture. Hope I’m making sense here.
God will never abandon Israel or the Jewish people. He made a covenant with them and God would never break such a covenant. I of course still struggle with Christmas, it is already stressing me out. On one hand I have three little ones hoping to have a Christmas tree this year and on the other I have a husband who refuses. In the middle I am. Do I worship my tree? No! So,in Jeremiah 10 when he is speaking to idol worshippers, is he speaking of the what we now call “christmas tree?” And if so, was so much that he was speaking of the “object” or what they “did” with the object? I mean so many of us will sit in front of the TV and keep a remote “glued” in our hands, or we’ll walk down the streets with iPod’s and MP3 players stuck in our ears with no regard much to our surroundings. How is it any different? This is a debate within my family.
Any opinions would be greatly appreciated here.
Derek, I see the love you have for God and the Messiah. So, may God Bless you and keep you.
Shalom,
Shannon
Shannon
I feel bad about your husbands experience. However I know of hotels in Hawaai where the guests pay lots of money to be deprived their telephones and other access to the outside world. For the sake of peace. However the guests know what to expect in advance.
It sounds as if someone failed somewhere to properly educate your husband on what to expect so he could enjoy his experience. Israeli tourism is important and they should address this. Hope someone does.
Shannon:
Thank you for sharing. I fail to understand, however, why 24 hours of being unable to communicate while someone is away in a foreign country is a matter of such concern. When I travel overseas, I often experience periods of no communication. Did you have some reason to believe your husband had been hurt? I don’t want to make light of your pain, if this incident was painful to you, but your scenario suggests that somehow you were treated unjustly.
The truth is, your husband could have gone to any number of pay phones, internet cafes, or similar establishments to communicate with you.
I think what you were trying to say, if I read you correctly, is that:
1. The Torah is merely a matter of culture.
2. Jesus rose above the mere level of culture and asked people to have a more pure religion concerned with the Father.
3. Messianic Jews are being backwards by insisting on culture and rejecting Jesus’ more pure, Torah-free religion.
Am I correct in reading your comment that way?
Listen, I don’t blame you for thinking this way. I’m not even upset that we disagree. Five years ago, I would have agreed with you.
That’s what the journey of Bible study is all about. Keep reading. Keep thinking. Perhaps one day you will see that Jews are still Jews and God has given something to Jews called Torah.
It is not culture. It is command. Divine command.
Now, perhaps you meant to make a different point. Perhaps you meant to say, “Shouldn’t those who observe the Torah be more sympathetic and helpful toward non-Jews and to exercise compassion in helping people, even if in so doing it involves a minor bending of religious policy.”
My answer to that would be, “Yes.” I too am bothered by fundamentalist Orthodox bullying. I have experienced it myself. I had a security guard practically tackle me in Israel to prevent me from bringing a bag of dried apricots into the hotel. Best I can tell, since he could not verify that they were kosher (prepared by Jews and not Gentiles), they were forbidden.
Yes, there are communities who take the rules far beyond Torah and even Talmud. Yes, the kosher hotels in Israel can be irritating.
What you need to know is that many Torah-observant Jews agree with you. Torah and tradition can be misinterpreted. Some segments of Orthodoxy are way over the top, trying to outdo one another in halakhic rigor.
Derek
Derek,
Either I completely “miscommunicated” my OPINION to you; or you may have misunderstood it. Maybe read it once more. I in no way undermine the Torah. Let’s get that clear first of all. I 100% believe in the Torah and its importance whether it be Jew or Gentile. Secondly, I never said I felt that I was treated “unjustly”. I was merely making a point about Jesus. I also remember stating that I believe He was/is 100% Jewish. But the statement I was making is this…how did He address the Pharisees/Leaders when He was out picking grain on the Sabbath?? That is exactly my point. It’s my point of saying “how should we treat others?” How would JESUS have treated someone in the situation my husband was in? And to answer your question, “YES”, there is legitimate reason that I need to contact him. He has a wife (me) and three little girls; of course he didn’t HAVE to go to Israel. I know that. But when God calls you to do something ANYWHERE, if you want to be obedient to Him, then you go. You don’t question, you go. He did. However, I have a now seven year old girl who was stricken with brain cancer at age 2. So please forgive me if I tend to seem “worrisome” that my husband is halfway around the world.
In addition, I have concern that I cannot reach him because he went into the desert (today) with two muslim men. I don’t know much about their culture. All you hear is what you hear on the news. I’m not saying they are all bad people..not at all. I’m not prejudice. But can you blame me for being nervous or worried about my husband? I would have to question myself if I wasn’t.
Never once did I even speculate that Messianic beliefs are backwards. What would that make me in the eyes of God? Do you really think that is what my post suggested? If so, then I most sincerely apologize. I respect 100% the culture, the Torah, the Talmud, the kosher laws, the Sabbath, the feasts, etc. My heart is with the Jewish people whether Orthodox or Messianic. My heart is for Israel. I pray peace upon them and upon God’s land. I am hurt to think that you took my post that way.
But to simply answer your question…”yes” you are incorrect in reading in that way. I never once said that Torah is just a matter of “culture.” It was God’s will for Israel. Jesus was living Torah. He was the demonstration of how we are to live also. Let me ask you a question. And it is not a sarcastic question, but one that I find difficult myself to understand. Why did Jesus, when He would travel and heal people, when He rose from the tomb and whoever addressed Him or when He performed a miracle say, “Go and tell no one.” Even the woman at the well? He told her the same the thing. I find that a bit confusing. What was His reasoning for that?
Everybody has an opinion…but ONLY God/Yeshua can view the heart. Take Care and God Bless.
Shannon:
I am glad to know I misunderstood your comment. I hope you will accept my apology. I hope you can see how I got the misinterpretation that I did out of your words.
Derek
Please don’t apologize. :-) Sometimes I have a bad way of “communicating” words in writing. What is in my heart isn’t always how I put them in writing and it’s something I need to work on. Yes, I can see how. But please know I have such a compassion for the Jewish people, Israel, the Torah and of course my Messiah!!
Again, God Bless and keep you and thanks for providing such a great website. It’s nice to know that there is a reputable place I can go to learn more.
Shannon
Hey Derek,
Your prob. gonna think i’m a real bonehead for asking this, but I’m confused about your position.
1)Do you ware tzit-tzit,talit,or observe sabbath? I’ve scanned through your blogs but i can’t tell. Also do you think gentiles should enjoy all the blessings of torah? Or are you preposing they remain gentiles and mearly observe a select of the commands? Which ones? (mt5:17-20 comp. jn15:10)
Do you realize the rabbinical implications of “brought near”?(eph2:13)
2)How can you see procelyte conversion as a way to preserve jewish identity? If a prohibited marrige takes place there simply are consequences (neither good or bad in the eyes of Yeshua, as far as salvation is concerned) But procelyte conversion is not gonna ‘make it all better’.
I conject that the first advent took place at a very key moment in history, as that, it was around His appearing that procelyte conversion was in its pre-adolecence if you will(as far as systimatic 4 step conversion method).
I would conclude that the sages looked at the sciptures and saw the ‘gospel message’ but didnt know how to impliment it. Possibly being with out faith themselves. This may have been what ‘provoked’ the holy One to send His own ‘son’ to the vineyard.
sorry for the bad grammar im in a hurry